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01-06-2008, 02:01 PM   #1
keithwms
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Default New dneg process - no interneg required

Let me preface this by saying that this is a new process I am working on. It's not optimized yet... I post this to try to encourage others to help optimize it.

As we all know, the usual dneg workflow requires printing an interneg on transparency or paper. The spirit of this post is to show that one can bypass the internegative altogether and just print a negative directly onto the photopaper, expose it, remove the inkjet ink, and voila.

Here is my very first attempt at this. Again, it's far from perfect, this is just an early example which shows an image that is partially cleared using my thumbs and water. The left hand side is thumb-wiped and the right hand side is not, I will explain below...



What you are looking at is an exposure test on ilford rc postcard stock. The paper was fed normally into an epson inkjet printer which I had put in a film changing tent. I also covered the printer's LEDs with black tape to prevent fogging the paper. A test image was selected, it's the same one I used for some other hybrid trials on matte fiber. The image was curved, converted to a neg in photoshop, and simply printed directly onto the photopaper.

After inkjetting the neg onto the paper, I exposed the paper. In the case above, I obviously did an exposure series from top to bottom. Bottom was 30 sec under my enlarger, top was 5 sec. Next I developed the paper normally, in ilford chems, and after rinsing, I simply wiped away the inkjet ink, with my eager thumbs, from the left side of the paper.

As you see, almost all of the ink wipes right off. Almost all of it. Actually the inkjetted image is rather fragile on the RC... there are blotches here and there because I carelessly stacked several trial prints against each other before letting the ink dry. I think I put some fingerprints on there too. If you think about it, the highlights in the final print are the places where the ink was heaviest in the inkjet print, so if any of that ink blotches then you get blotchy highlights. So one needs to be more careful than I was.

There is the issue of how to get rid of all of the ink, but I think that is a problem that can be solved. Most important is to remember that the "negative" was right atop the paper emulsion so the image is sharp, sharp, sharp even though I didn't do anything to hold the paper flat i.e. no easel or contact printing frame

So there you have it, direct dnegs. A work in progress. Worst case, maybe the pigment has to be bleached off, or maybe a lesser non-pigment ink will make life easier. Bear in mind that this trial was with an RC paper, I don't now yet how things will go with fiber. I am thinking that one can bleach off the ink and be left with a purely analogue image. On the other hand, maybe you won't want to bleach it off entirely, maybe this opens up new creative possibilities. Silver image beneath a coloured pigment image? Whatever.

Possible advantages: no cost of interneg materials, and no need to hold an interneg perfectly flat against the photopaper to get tack-sharp contact prints. Oh and since you're not waiting for an interneg to dry, it's very fast. I imagine that if it works well, it could be scaled inexpensively to any carriage size. Also, I think that if you use pictorico transparency film or velum, one necessarily limits Dmin and introduces some texture via the substrate... this gets around that entirely.
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01-06-2008, 04:43 PM   #2
Ray Heath
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excellent Keith, that's an amazing concept

was the printing done in colour or mono?

how did you "curve" the image?

Ray
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01-06-2008, 06:26 PM   #3
keithwms
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Thanks Ray. I had fun tinkering.

The starting image was curved in the same way that I curve for digital negs... the highlights and shadows were quite heavily compressed toward the midtones.

The print was done in mono with matte black ink. I don't know if that's a good choice or a poor one... it was simply a starting point based on my observation that it smudges away nicely from the glossy RC surface.
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01-06-2008, 06:54 PM   #4
Ray Heath
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thnx Keith

how did you handle the paper in the darkroom?

was the ink still damp and or 'smudgy'?

how did you contact print?

did any of the ink wash off in the dev tray and what effect would it have on the solution?

Ray
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01-06-2008, 07:01 PM   #5
keithwms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Heath View Post
thnx Keith

how did you handle the paper in the darkroom?

was the ink still damp and or 'smudgy'?

how did you contact print?

did any of the ink wash off in the dev tray and what effect would it have on the solution?

Ray
There was no contact printing involved, I simply put the inkjet-imprinted photopaper under my enlarger and didn't bother to flatten it or easel it. Just laid it there and exposed it. Then I developed the paper normally. As you can well imagine, with the inkjet negative image and the developing silver image superimposed, the whole thing goes black; you can see that under safelights and then you know you're finished. Then I stopped and fixed normally. Then, under running water, I just smudged the inkjet ink away.

No, no ink came off in the dev tray (as far as I could tell).

Yes, the ink was still damp when I took it to the darkroom- I must have smudged it a bit before exposure because some of the ink was on the backside of an adjacent print. So to do this more carefully I need to isolate the prints, or better yet just take the printer into the darkroom and go directly from inkjet to exposure to developer.
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01-06-2008, 07:12 PM   #6
Ray Heath
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thnx Keith, silly me, of course there was no contact printing involved

Ray
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01-06-2008, 11:52 PM   #7
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Very clever indeed. I had been thinking along these lines, wondering if a gum or egg coating on a permanent polyester film base could be exposed from underneath through an inkjet-printed image. But this gets right to the point.

Well, here's one way to get the ink off; use the technique to make a gum print and it will clear with the gum. Unfortunately it might be difficult to perfectly register a second print for a second layer. Alternatively, with your approach, I would try mild alcohols or mild caustics to attack the binder in the ink. Possibly something as mild as propylene glycol would act as solvent.

Last edited by reck; 01-07-2008 at 12:22 AM.. Reason: adjusted optimism
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01-07-2008, 05:14 PM   #8
David A. Goldfarb
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That's a cool idea. I'd guess some sort of solvent bath and a rinse before the developer would clear the ink.
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01-07-2008, 08:28 PM   #9
keithwms
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Thanks for the comments!

I had a second try today. This time I took my printer into the darkroom, printed onto Ilford RC glossy, exposed the paper right away, cleared the ink fully in water, and then processed the paper in the usual chems.

The results are much improved- now I see no smudging and the ink was 99% cleared with only water and minor finger rubbing. Tonally it looks as good as or better than the results I had before with normal diginegs.



I also tried Ilford fiber matte paper, and actually, clearing the ink isn't the problem... that still basically works (even better with a bit of isopropanol). The problem is that the ink kind of puddles on the surface of the paper. I tried various inks but didn't find a solution today.

So, for now, anything RC coated looks like it's quite easy. Also, by clearing the ink before development, you can easily see how well you've done against the white paper.
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01-07-2008, 08:35 PM   #10
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This zoom shows that it's not perfect, I do still need to optimize the ink/paper settings. The zoom is from about ~1 inch of the print.

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